Hugsies Blog!

July 6, 2011

Firestorm Beta 2.5.2.16922

Filed under: Second Life Shit!, Viewer Gripes — Tags: , , , — Hugsie @ 1:20 pm

New beta of Firestorm came out last week, and been trying to deal with how everything seems to be bass-ackwards on where things are located, and how things seem to be missing all together. Here are some bugs and other issues i’ve found.

  • If you’re in a very lagged region it really plays havoc on Firestorm. Nametags will only show group titles, or nothing at all if an avi doesn’t have one activated. Radar shows  nothing but a long list of UUIDs instead of names.  IMs with people will not show the avi’s name in the “tab” but it is shown in side the chat text with each message the send.
  • Every time I relog (usualy after a crash) the button for inventory at the bottom is missing, and I have to change it off and back on again for it to reappear.
  • In profile, Notes & Privacy, also in script editor, the cursor posistion seems to be 2-3 spaces to the right of where the cursor actually is. Highlighting text in the notes is also off by 2-3 characters, and impossible to tell where your cursor really is within text. Note my Font Scaling is set to 1.23, but this doesn’t seem to effect other areas. (notecards, chat text fields, and editing my own profile works fine.)
  • On the Mac, it seems that using Font Scaling has no effect, but actual cursor placement is also off by a few characters regardless.
  • Cannot read notes in my OWN profile. Please use old-style profiles on my OWN profile since i can see other user’s profile in the old-way
  • The pre-rendering images of your avi’s body parts in apperance mode takes FOREVER to appear.
  • Viewing my own profile should automatically be editable with out having to click anything else.
  • On login screen, the list of alts you may have needs to be put back, and there needs to be a way to manage them, especially if you use different grids.
  • When listing too mustic stream, I get TWO prompts asking to allow it. Redundant?
  • I don’t like how the “My Outfits” folder dissapears from my inventory, and can only be seen from a button in the button bar.
  • Radar no longer shows me what viewer avatars are using?
  • Used to be able to click on the images used in profiles to see them in accrual size; no longer there!
  • Missing “checkmark” for seeing muted text in the local chat window.
  • Where’s the “show message when someone takes a screenshot” option?
  • Why is there an annoying “are you sure” message every time I give someone inventory?
  • Also why does it refer to as “sharing” an item when I’m actually GIVING it to them?
  • I keep seeing old notices pop up that are at least 3 days old. This might be due to logging in with two different computers at different times.

I’ve also been reading on the “Migration Guide” that the phonenix team has release to help make Firestorm more like Phoenix. However, if the whole point of Firestorm is to make a Phoenix-like version of Viewer 2, why aren’t these settings already put in by default when it’s installed?  Perhaps it will be once it’s finished up and released?

So, one of the suggestions in this Migration Guide was to set the skin to “Starlight” instead of the default “Firestorm” skin so that it looks more like Phoenix, but I find this to be completely WRONG.   It’s beter to use the “Firestorm” skin because the build window appears normal, Appearance mode is a bit more like old-style,  the profiles appear in the classic format, vs the “viewer 2” style that the “starlight” skin does. Unfortunately your own profile still appears in that viewer 2 style, but being able to see other’s profiles in “classic” style is much easier to handle, than the clusterfuck way viewer 2 does it.

Also while using the defualt “Firestorm” skin, the useless navigation address bar is gone, and you’re left with the normal text showing the parcel and region you’re in. Click it brings up “About Land” instantly vs when using “Starlight” skin you get “Places Profile” which doesn’t give you any useful information, so you have to click “About Land” button at the bottom of it.

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6 Comments »

  1. I’m not getting most of these behaviors out of firestorm. Though it might be because I do a clean install of the viewer each time i put the new beta in. I also had to recently wipe every viewer from my system and manually clear my caches when something in a main viewer2 update made everything go insane.

    Comment by Toir — July 7, 2011 @ 5:19 am

    • I did a clean install. Most of this behavior is the fact I’m used to phoenix, and i still don’t care for how viewer 2 looks and feels. But I guess I will get used to it eventually.

      Comment by hugsalot — July 7, 2011 @ 10:04 am

  2. Hi! I was searching the web for something and landed on your blog. I’m on the Phoenix/Firestorm support team, and I felt like responding to your comments on Firestorm. What you’re about to read will be very redundant — I’ll be including a lot of links to the JIRA, which is our issue tracker. The issue tracker is how future developments (bug fixes and feature requests) are collected, organized, and implemented, so the links are meant to show you what kind of progress is being made on each of the items you’re interested in. If someone wants something in Firestorm but doesn’t create a JIRA on it, there’s no way the devs will know it’s wanted.

    “If you’re in a very lagged region….”

    This kind of performance matter is going to vary considerably from one person to another. We can try to help you with your own issue if you need, but it’s not a universal problem with the viewer.

    “the button for inventory at the bottom….”

    This is a problem for people with crowded bottom bars, yeah.. but if there are any bottom bar buttons you can stand to remove and haven’t yet, do so. It can help. There are general problems with settings reverting after crashes and logoffs that didn’t complete cleanly. The Master JIRA for that is here: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-1838

    “….the cursor posistion seems to be 2-3 spaces to the right of where the cursor actually is….”

    Changing font scaling *will* have side effects. Says so when you change it. 🙂 And the side effects aren’t going to be uniform across every place in the viewer. However, cursor position in notecards is a known bug for all font sizes that’s being worked on. A fix has been put in for the next release: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-1574

    “On the Mac, it seems that using Font Scaling has no effect…”

    The difference with font scaling is very noticeable on my Mac. Even just going from 1.0 to 1.1 is huge. If it’s really not showing up for you, let us know in support or better yet, file a support request JIRA with pictures. We’ll try and figure out what’s wrong.

    “Cannot read notes in my OWN profile..”

    Yeah, we inherited that from V2 code. Notes in personal profiles are on the to do list but isn’t high-priority because there are a couple of workarounds: log in with Phoenix and copy your personal notes to a notecard or access your notes through your http://my.secondlife.com/ web profile. Here’s the JIRA; feel free to add your comments/votes/watch: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-839

    “The pre-rendering images of your avi’s body parts in apperance mode takes FOREVER to appear.”

    For me it’s about as long as it takes in V1 viewers; it’s another one that’s probably user-specific. We can address issues you have with lag if you think it’s unusually serious for you.

    “Viewing my own profile should automatically be editable with out having to click anything else.”

    Sounds like a good one to file a new JIRA on. I think a lot of people would like that.

    “On login screen, the list of alts you may have needs to be put back..”

    Been planned since the beginning. Here’s the JIRA on it: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-964 . Once again, comment/vote/watch.

    “When listing too mustic stream, I get TWO prompts asking to allow it. Redundant?”

    Two of the same prompt? Or do you mean the first one to accept/deny and then the second one that asks more detail? Might be a tad redundant, but it’s less confusing than the Phoenix version of the same feature, judging by how many fewer questions and complaints we get about it. Or perhaps users are just used to the media filter now.

    “I don’t like how the “My Outfits” folder dissapears from my inventory, and can only be seen from a button in the button bar.”

    You can also access it with Avatar > Outfit or by right-clicking yourself, Edit Appearance > Edit Outfit, and then click the arrow next to Outfit at the top of the panel to return to the list. There’s almost always at least two or three ways of doing the same thing in Firestorm.

    “Radar no longer shows me what viewer avatars are using?”

    There’s really no such thing as “no longer” in Firestorm development, if you’re trying to compare it to Phoenix. Don’t forget we started with a V2 base and have to build off of that. It’s not a matter of stripping stuff out, it’s a matter of adding stuff in at the same time as the devs work to (as one of them puts it) “de-suck the V2 UI.”

    That said, the JIRA for future radar improvements is here: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-1200

    “Used to be able to click on the images used in profiles to see them in accrual size; no longer there!”

    Again, no such thing as “no longer.” Any time you think “no longer,” please replace it in your mind with “not yet.” Corresponding JIRA for this issue: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-1796

    “Missing “checkmark” for seeing muted text in the local chat window.”

    This one was just brought up by someone else yesterday, but I don’t believe there is a JIRA on it yet. Care to create one?

    “Where’s the “show message when someone takes a screenshot” option?”

    This also doesn’t have a JIRA yet, so if you want it, you’ll need to request it. I don’t want to get your hopes up for this one, though: it’s always been more of a drama feature in Phoenix than something that people have used for practical purposes. And those are the only kinds of Phoenix features that might not be added in Firestorm. If you request it, please include an explanation of what you use it for so that it’s clear that idle curiosity about what others are doing isn’t the only reason people are interested in it.

    “Why is there an annoying “are you sure” message every time I give someone inventory?”

    That only happens with no-copy items, and Phoenix does it too. I’d be surprised if it isn’t the same for all viewers. The Phoenix one is worded, “You do not have permission to copy this item….” What you’re seeing on Firestorm is the equivalent of that.

    “Also why does it refer to as “sharing” an item when I’m actually GIVING it to them?”

    Not a clue. If it niggles that badly, file an improvement request. 🙂

    “I keep seeing old notices pop up that are at least 3 days old. This might be due to logging in with two different computers at different times.”

    Might be. Also make sure you’re fully clearing them out when you close them. Toasts really are a pain in the butt to get used to.

    Also – I happen to agree with your opinion on recommending Starlight skins for a V1-like experience in the migration guide. They may look more like V1 skins in color/theme, but the button placement is farther off. A few other people have mentioned the same thing, and I will bring it up with Ed again.

    It is planned that in the future, users will have a V1-like settings set option or a V2-like settings set option when they log in. That just hasn’t been implemented yet. Still a lot to get to.

    Comment by Lette Ponnier — August 8, 2011 @ 7:37 am

    • ah thanks for replying.. sorry i didn’t approve this post earlier but all the links you put in your post flag it as possible spam

      Anyway.. I really DO NOT LIKE JIRAs. They are a complete clusterfuck. It’s confusing, hard to follow, hard to search for anything. Every time I think i found something new and have done all the searching i can do to see if it’s already reported.. I’ll go ahead and post a new bug/issue. However inevitably some JIRA troll who knows the damn thing better than the back of thier hand will respond to it claiming it’s a re-post or a duplicate of another jira post. And yet I’m the one looking like a fool for reposting. It’s like bug reporting via forums; and guess what? I hate forums too! it’s an asinine to use, and developers actually expect their end users use such a HORRIBLE system?

      I post here since it’s easier for me to just vent frustrations. If a dev like you happens to come across my post about project they work on; great! But I really DO NOT have the patients for JIRAs.

      Comment by HUGSaLOT (@HUGSaLOT) — August 8, 2011 @ 1:50 pm

  3. Hiya Hugsie,

    No problem about the approval time at all.

    I’m not sure why the JIRA got flagged as spam, but I’ll pass it on. However, we seem to have a few misunderstandings about how and why the JIRA works. For Phoenix/Firestorm, it’s the way that almost all the work done on the viewers is organized. The JIRA is essentially a large-scale to do list, and it’s the only to do list the devs use. If an issue isn’t in the JIRA, the chances of it getting done are remote. Unfortunately, I know it’s aggravating for those not used to it: it’s hard to navigate and search, and some parts of it are riddled in techno-speak that the average user doesn’t understand.

    And if you don’t spend a lot of time on it, then it won’t be immediately visible that internally — for the purpose of keeping track of what needs to be done and what the issues’ progress is — it works very well.

    For instance, the people who label bugs and such as duplicates aren’t JIRA trolls, they’re moderators. The purpose for marking as duplicates is not to make you feel like a fool. The purpose is to keep the system organized because it *is* unwieldy and hard to manage. When we see a duplicate come in, we don’t think, “What an idiot.” We think, “Oh it’s another person interested in this topic we’ve been referring to for weeks. Let’s create a link to it so it doesn’t get lost.”

    To those who use it most, the JIRA is anything but a discussion forum; as I said before, it’s essentially a large-scale to do list. If something is already on the to do list, with commentary and progress, possibly a few other links to it, hopefully an assignee (a dev who’s already committed to completing it), and maybe even a patch, then additional posts on the same issue *need* to be linked and closed. That’s not insult, it’s administration. They’ll still be available for reading, and if an issue turns out to be a new or different one after all, it can be reopened.

    You don’t need to use it if you don’t want to. And if you don’t want to, I don’t blame you — it does take a lot of getting used to. Just be aware that even if it’s confusing on the outside, it actually does exactly what it’s supposed to do on the inside: to provide a way to keep track of the progress on requested issues. No more and no less. And also be aware that if there’s something you want in the viewer and it isn’t JIRAed, it’s most likely not going to happen. As a support team member (not a dev, by the way), I’m happy to help people figure out if their issue is already filed and to help them file a new one if it isn’t.

    Comment by virtuallyengendered — August 20, 2011 @ 6:39 am

  4. Darnit, sorry for posting under a different name. That was still Lette, and if you can possibly change that, it would be appreciated. 🙂

    Comment by virtuallyengendered — August 20, 2011 @ 6:40 am


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